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rsadelleSo, I run this list. It's not the only Metallica slash out there. There are people on metslash who aren't on the list that dare not speak its name, and vice versa. There are some people on both lists. Most of the people who are no mail and/or lurkers on metslash are on both lists. Most of the people who post fic are only on metslash.
Every time I remind people about our archiving policies, I remind them that crossposting is okay. It is possible to post a fic to a list without granting archiving permission. I know that some of the people on both lists are writers. I know that some of them are extremely good writers. I know that they've posted fic to the other list. And yet, with the exception of one author and one story by a second author, none of them post to metslash.
Why not?
Is it because we don't automatically jump up and down and say, "Oh, you're so wonderful, that was the best story ever, when are you writing the sequel?" to every piece of fic that gets posted? Is it because I actually dare to say what I don't like about fic? I only wish someone would critique my fic the way I've critiqued other people's fic. Well, the more recent stuff anyway; I know just how bad some of my older fic is. Isn't that far more useful to you as a writer than unconditional praise for every word you write?
Or perhaps, like one person who recently unsubbed, they don't like it that I dare say that I don't like some of the writing and list policies of the other list. Apparently the fact that all three S's and various other people from the other list have said extremely negative things about metslash and me in their journals and journal comments is completely irrelevant.
Not that I'm bitter.
Every time I remind people about our archiving policies, I remind them that crossposting is okay. It is possible to post a fic to a list without granting archiving permission. I know that some of the people on both lists are writers. I know that some of them are extremely good writers. I know that they've posted fic to the other list. And yet, with the exception of one author and one story by a second author, none of them post to metslash.
Why not?
Is it because we don't automatically jump up and down and say, "Oh, you're so wonderful, that was the best story ever, when are you writing the sequel?" to every piece of fic that gets posted? Is it because I actually dare to say what I don't like about fic? I only wish someone would critique my fic the way I've critiqued other people's fic. Well, the more recent stuff anyway; I know just how bad some of my older fic is. Isn't that far more useful to you as a writer than unconditional praise for every word you write?
Or perhaps, like one person who recently unsubbed, they don't like it that I dare say that I don't like some of the writing and list policies of the other list. Apparently the fact that all three S's and various other people from the other list have said extremely negative things about metslash and me in their journals and journal comments is completely irrelevant.
Not that I'm bitter.
It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 04:06 pm (UTC)Sel said:
everything that has been a major issue was discussed and voted on...opened to the entire list.
Sel, let me ask you something: do you consider the complete changing of archiving policy a major issue? It is, and that's why I find your above statement blatantly hypocritical. The decision to disallow fic posted on the archive for The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name was not voted on by the entire list, I remember that vividly. There was an email sitting in my inbox from you Three S's telling me and the rest of the list that we weren't allowed to have our stories on another list's archive if they were archived on The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name.
I just wanted to point that out, as people seem to have forgotten that.
Liz said:
And by the way, I am eighteen years old and am in no way considered a child, yet I couldn't find the tallific page until a certain list moderator gave me Spooks e-mail address.
I'm eighteen as well, Liz, and I hate to be the one to tell you guys this, but your archive is not as hidden as you seem to think it is. On a lark, I went looking for it. I found it, and it didn't take more than five minutes.
Jez said:
Contradiction?
Heya, Jez.
The only people I've seen contradicting themselves so far are some of the folks on The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name, so I don't know why you're asking that. If I've missed something, please feel free to point it out to me, Jez.
Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 05:01 pm (UTC)I mean... she says she doesn't personally attack... but I kinda consider it a personal attack when she points out a few of her pros and then names a person who - according to her - doesn't have the same pros...
And also... somewhere up there Ruth says that any criticism towards the 3 S's - whoever they are, I just have a guess - is a big no-no... or that people don't dare to speak their mind to the boss(es) of our list... THEN, she aknowledges that people have difficulty addressing those in charge, whether it's her or the 3 S's...
That kinda makes me wonder, if she always knew that, then why the hell...?
Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 06:09 pm (UTC)::I kinda consider it a personal attack when she points out a few of her pros and then names a person who - according to her - doesn't have the same pros...
I don't. I think she's just pointing out the differences between her and someone else.
::And also... somewhere up there Ruth says that any criticism towards the 3 S's - whoever they are, I just have a guess - is a big no-no... or that people don't dare to speak their mind to the boss(es) of our list... THEN, she aknowledges that people have difficulty addressing those in charge, whether it's her or the 3 S's...
You misunderstand. Ruth was saying that to her, it seemed that The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name's general attitude towards criticism of the Three S's was that it was completely badevil, and in point of fact, she's not the only one that feels/felt that way. I noticed it too.
As for her acknowledgement that people sometimes have trouble addressing the people/person in charge, some people do, but on The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name, it seems as though the moderators are rather unreachable, and it sometimes seemed to me that they really didn't care, which is why Ruth tries to make herself available whenever someone has a complaint about the list. She doesn't want to project that vibe that so many of us ex-Other List-ers felt while on The Other List.
Re: It's Tri.--Kris here
Date: 2001-04-30 03:33 pm (UTC)<<<
<<<<but on The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name, it seems as though the moderators are rather unreachable, and it sometimes seemed to me that they really didn't care>>>>
This is simply not the case. I've gone to both spooky and sel on more then one occasion both to talk to and to ask for help and they've helped me every bit of the way.
Re: It's Tri.--Kris here
Date: 2001-05-01 01:56 pm (UTC)Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-29 11:53 am (UTC)Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 07:56 pm (UTC)It's not on any list I've ever seen, Sel, and I've seen quite a few, so I don't know why you say that.
::If a problem is brought to our attention...we do adress it...despite what you feel.
You missed the point again. What I was saying, Sel, is that some people on TOL don't feel they can bring a problem to your attention! What's so hard to understand about that? You should really ask yourself why they feel they can't bring a problem or a complaint to you, Stagie, or Spooky, if you feel as you claim you do.
::It was said that people were afraid of being ignored if they opposed us.
Yes, that was said. No one ever said it actually happened, Sel; what we're saying is that it was the air of the list, if you will, that made people feel that way. It eventually led me to unsub, that and the drastic change in archiving policy.
::Oh, and I find it interesting that you claim to have gotten an e-mail from the moderators
So you're denying that the moderators sent a message about the change in policy to the list, which eventually winds up in people's mailboxes, unless they're on no-mail?
::(The three s's seems a tad childish...just as the list you dare not mention! does.)
And yet people wonder why we say 'The Three S's' and 'The List That Dare Not Speak Its Name'. It seems every time we mention one by name a flamewar erupts. I can't speak for anyone else on this, but I, quite frankly, am sick of it.
::You were gone from the list the next day, wonder how that happened?
Simple. I went to chat, told Spooky I'd have to unsub, and was gone. Duh.
::Does pose an interesting question...don't it.
One which I just answered, if you'll see above.
Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 08:32 pm (UTC)And I'm perfectly willing to let it go, Sel. It would appear that it's the Tallific people that really keep this going, while metslash winds up defending itself for something that we don't think is insulting in any way, but is taken the wrong way by a member of Tallific, although I'm sure your point of view on this is different.
Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-28 09:46 pm (UTC)Yes, it was in response to Ruth's entry, in *her* journal, where she has the right to post what she feels. She can't help it if someone from Tallific reads it and takes it the wrong way and/or gets insulted.
You said that no one was getting anywhere with this, and that we should drop it, and on that I agree. We are arguing in circles, and as long as someone isn't telling me that I don't know what I recieved/saw/read, etc., I'm willing to drop it and let everyone else argue if they so desire.
Re: It's Tri.
Date: 2001-04-29 11:50 am (UTC)