What am I, chopped liver?

[rsadelle]

No offense meant to chopped liver or the people who like it.

There have been several conversations about constructive criticism floating around recently. In all of them, people have said to me, in response to constructive crit, "How would you feel if someone did to you what you just did to this author?" My response is, "I'd love it," which is absolutely true. I would love it if someone would take one of my stories (preferably a newer one; I know where much of my older fic sucks) and tear it apart. And yet, despite the many times I've said this, no one has.

Are they sticking to their idea that constructive crit, especially when you dare openly say you don't like something, is evil and mean and should therefore not be done? Am I really such a good writer that they can't find things to criticize? Do they just not care about my writing enough to do it?

There have also been several conversations, although not as recent, about what constitutes a ridiculous pairing. No one ever mentioned James Hetfield/Eminem. I think that's a rather unbelievable pairing. Was the story good enough that the unbelievability of it wasn't noticeable? Was it not quite bad enough to warrant being singled out as a bad example? Was it mediocre enough to slip under everyone's radar?

I wonder if part of the reason no one ever critiques my writing is because I don't have a feedback header anymore. I stopped using it when I really got sick of the "if you don't send me feedback telling me how great this is, not only are you a bad person, but I'll never write again" attitude that many writers imbue their feedback headers with. I don't want to contribute to that. I don't want to beg for feedback. I don't want to guilt trip people into writing feedback. I don't want to blackmail people into writing feedback. I don't want this entry to sound like I'm pouting because I don't get certain types of feedback. I want people to write me feedback if and when they have something to say about my stories. I just wish there were some way for me to make it clear that I welcome thoughts on what doesn't work without sounding like I'm demanding feedback.

Comments

Re: If I could, I would

[coneyislandbaby]

That was what I was thinking of.

You could be right.

The thing is, with the books I don't care for, after reading a section of them, I don't bother reading further. For a short book (under 200 pages) I give it twenty pages and if I'm not captivated, I move onto something else. Longer books get a hundred or so pages. I don't read books that I don't like, and I rarely read fanfic that I don't like. I don't think I'm qualified to critique something I couldn't finish, and most of what I finish works for me. Not always perfectly, of course.

Re: If I could, I would

[rsadelle]

Nothing ever works perfectly. If you're writing to tell someone what you liked about her story, why not throw in a thing or two that didn't work as well? It will help her be a better writer.

Re: If I could, I would

[coneyislandbaby]

I have done that. I don't really consider that to be criticism, just pointing out the occasional thing that doesn't work. I tend to do that in offlist feedback, though I've done it a couple of times in onlist feedback, and they're usually only small bits of canon or reality that don't quite fit. Sometimes that's been deliberate on their part and I don't want to say that it's wrong in public when I've done that myself in fic to fit what I wanted to write better (I'm not against that idea, I just like the writers to say it up front so I don't get confused *g*).

Re: If I could, I would

[rsadelle]

If you can tease out why it doesn't work, and tell the author that, then it becomes more constructive.

Re: If I could, I would

[coneyislandbaby]

I've actually just come to a realisation. I usually feedback as I go through my email, although I've usually read the stories through a couple of times by then, and I usually do just do a quick praise/other comments type of thing. But I haven't been doing that so much recently, due in part to my refusal to read WIPs and RL having just recently been rather annoying. And I've re-read stories I'm going to feedback several times. I've actually been able to tease out why some things didn't quite work for me. I didn't realise this before, and it's interesting.

Re: If I could, I would

[rsadelle]

Serious crit does take a lot of time and energy, and some amount of training. I don't expect everyone to have that time, energy, or training. I know that not everyone's going to write serious crit. It is something you can learn, and if you do, more power to you. My real problem is when people are discouraged from writing or posting serious crit.

Re: If I could, I would

[coneyislandbaby]

Well, that can be a problem because people don't know what serious crit is, and I do think it can come off as a flame, even if that isn't the intention, to the other person. It's not the critic's perception that's wrong, it's the author's. And that is, I think, a part of why authors take crit so badly, that their perception of it is skewed. I think it's because there are so many people without any literary background (hell, most of mine is simply reading a lot, but I do think about what I read and why I like it or don't like it) in fandom.

And the discouragement thing is why I think it's important to have some kind of guideline. There are people who don't mind if you criticise their fic, but for various reasons prefer it offlist (I know several on various lists who feel that way), whereas some people don't mind if you do it onlist.

Unfortunately, there isn't a fandom-agreed guideline for this kind of thing, not even a heavily established convention like death or rape warnings, so I think that it will forever be a bone of contention in fandom *sigh*.