HP7: A feminist thought and a fannish question

[rsadelle]

There are spoilers in this post. Don't click on the lj-cuts if you don't want to know.

Feminist Thought
Because HP is, after all, a children's book, there is no explicit swearing in it. When people swear, it's just in the narration that someone is swearing under their breath. The one swear word that makes it into the book: "Bitch." This seems like a good site for some feminist critique. Also, it's been bothering me, so I had to say something about it.

Fannish Question
The last three books have been very fannish, in the sense that they fit right in with all kinds of fan fic plots I've read. Does this mean that the HP universe is so well laid out that anyone can see what's going to happen?

Comments

[ee970.livejournal.com]

1) They also say "effing," which, while technically not a curse, surprised me, and I think there's a damn in there or two. Someone told me there was a "slut" in book 6, but did not show canon, so I dunno about that. Anyhow, given the context, I thought it kinda worked out alright--Bellatrix WAS a bitch, and Molly Weasley being the one to say it (more importantly, being the one to take Bellatrix down--the most important and most dangerous enemy save Voldie) meant a lot. She was badass. If it was just "bitch" as synonym for "woman" I might feel different, but other than thinking it wasn't really necessary, I can't really see any problem with it. If you're thinking of feminist arguments, I'd be going after Tonks and Ginny's roles--or lack thereof.

2) Replace "well laid out" with "painfully cliched" and you've got a winner. At least book 7 is just mediocre fic as opposed to 6's badfic... *sigh*

[rsadelle]

Huh. I guess I didn't notice the effing. It's not about Molly using the word. It's about the author/editors thinking that while other swear words are not appropriate for children to read, that one's okay. And, oh, yes, on Tonks and Ginny. Bah!

[ee970.livejournal.com]

That is a good point; I wondered if they kept it in the UK children's edition. That said, the book as a whole is rather violent and full of adult themes (rapist!Greyback?), so I would hope that lots of parents aren't just letting their kids read it willy-nilly... :(

[rsadelle]

That's true. It was a bit more violent than the last two, even though they also had death.

[ee970.livejournal.com]

Death in and of itself isn't violent in my opinion, but the casual deaths of innocents and laissez-faire attitude towards injuries (the odd treatment of George's ear and Neville waving off his various scars comes to mind as something that struck me), the flayed baby under a chair, the whatever the hell happened to Dumbles' sister (which whatever it was, was presented in a way that made one think beating and/or molestation), Aberforth the goat fucker... This was definitely not a children's book. Like with the cursing, the more adult things really stand out because of the other parts that are so simple and childish (how Slytherin = Evil/Self-centered NO EXCEPTIONS, how female characters are basically worthless/immoral/incomplete without a husband and family, how Harry is the good guy and thus gets to win, no strings attached).

[ee970.livejournal.com]

Ah, and thinking on your other comments, I do wonder as there really aren't any other curses in the book; did she intentionally cut out or not use "damn" or "shit" or "hell" and leave in the bitch? I suppose if there had been lots of cursing, the bitch wouldn't stand out so much--but perhaps that was the point. Still, it did seem rather out of place (though this is probably odd for me, as I curse like a sailor)

[rsadelle]

I wonder exactly the same thing! I probably wouldn't have noticed the bitch if there had been a lot of other swear words.

[abusing-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

WARNING: SPOILERY

I was surprised about the "effing," too. I could just imagine kids asking their parents what that meant...

As for "bitch," I think that if anyone deserved it, it was Bellatrix. :) That said, I do think that it's a little questionable. Maybe not anti-feminist per se, but bitch is a word that gets thrown around much more often than a comparable male word (maybe asshole?). I think it's an extension of the general lack of feminism in society. As in, you can say bitch on most primetime US TV, but you can't say asshole. Although you can say bastard, so who knows what's in the minds of screwed up censors.

I think that the whole "7th Horcrux" thing was played out in so many book seven fanfic stories that I was a bit surprised that J.K. went there. It seemed a little too obvious to me.

The epilogue (and having an epilogue at all) was VERY fannish. Of course, I'm a fangirl, so I loved having it. But it does take away from the "literary classic" status.

I'm just sitting back and waiting for all of the Hogwarts the Next Generation fic to start pouring in. Will Albus find love at Hogwarts? :D And who wants to place odds on Draco's son falling in love with Lilly Potter the Second? I bet it's being written as we speak...

[rsadelle]

Yeah, it's about that word being okay for children to read and other swear words not. (I apparently do not consider "effing" a swear word, because while it does sound familiar now, I didn't really notice it while reading.)

Gah! Now I have the image of Lily going to school and being sorted into Slytherin and then Scorpius falls in love with her the way Snape did with the first Lily Potter, but this generation, he's learned not to hate (or at least learned little enough that true love works it out of him).

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Gah! Now I have the image of Lily going to school and being sorted into Slytherin and then Scorpius falls in love with her the way Snape did with the first Lily Potter, but this generation, he's learned not to hate (or at least learned little enough that true love works it out of him).

*encourages* I would love to see this, especially if it includes a scene with Ron and Draco having to make small talk and be nice to each other over dinner with their kids.

[rsadelle]

Like she said, I'm sure there will be plenty of that sort of thing!

[valerie-quinn.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm really curious to see the UK (original) version of the manuscript. It could be that the word cunt was used instead of bitch. While the "c-word" is really taboo here (even moreso than bitch), it's used daily in the UK. I'm also willing to bet that "effing" isn't left as that in the UK. If JK was true to her original plan (the first book is meant for 11 year olds ... the 7th book for 17 year olds), then I doubt there would be much worry from the publisher about using a bit of language, especially language that isn't as taboo in the UK.

My biggest disappointment with the epilogue is that it didn't show what happened to hardly anyone. I'm curious to know how George is adjusting to no longer having a twin. I want to know about Teddy's early childhood with his grandmother. I want to see how the Malfoys were reabsorbed into wizarding society. I almost wish there hadn't been an epilogue. However, it was neat to know that Bill and Fleur had a daughter. I do think that it was weird with the kids' names, but it was nice to see that Harry had accepted Snape as important influence in his life. Oh! But I was annoyed that there wasn't a new portrait in the headmaster's office at the end of the book.

[abusing-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess J.K. wanted to leave some things for us to imagine. It's for us to fill in the holes. It's like our calling or something. :)

I mean, there were things about the epilogue that I didn't like and things that made me squee loudly. I went back and forth as to whether I thought there should have been one at all, and then I realized that I would've shit a ring around myself without one. I wish it would have been longer and more complete, of course, but I know what I'm really wishing for is another book. :)

I would have had kittens if I'd found the c-word in a Harry Potter book, but I am an American after all. My best friend is from England and he would've talked me down off the ledge, I suppose. I'd love to get my hands on the UK version, too. I wondered about "effing," which seemed a little American to me.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

I did actually have a similar reaction to that--but on the other hand, I kind of liked the fact that Molly got to be a badass for once in the series. The gender stuff that bothered me more was the fact that Ginny and Tonks who both seemed to have the potential for a lot more development were relegated to very minor and very gender-stereotyped love-interest types of roles in this book.

[rsadelle]

Yeah, bad Ginny and Tonks characterization. I did love that Molly beat Bellatrix in a duel. That was awesome. What I have an issue with is that the author/editors thought that "bitch" was a swear word appropriate for children where other swear words are not.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

I think, before I can have a coherent opinion on the "bitch" thing, I need to first get past the "Holy crap, Molly Weasley said 'bitch'! O_O" thing, but I did like that scene because it proved that the power of a mother's love isn't just about dying for your kid, it's also about laying the holy smackdown on crazy Death Eaters who try to kill your daughter. It's a nice little bookend to Lily's sacrifice, I think. (Though it still bothers me that apparently a father's love doesn't count. :/ )

[rsadelle]

I'm not saying I didn't like it. I'm saying I'm bothered by the fact that "bitch" is apparently an appropriate swear word for children to read where other swear words are not.