Something I've been thinking about off and on is how the NHL will/would change as a social organization if there were (a) female players with male partners or (b) male players in relationships with men. I mean, I already have a lot of questions about what life must be like for players' wives and girlfriends (imagine how incredibly lonely Sylvie Briere must have been when they moved to Philly), but how would that change if the partners included men? Note: I am talking here about public relationships; I assume there's at least a player or two with a male partner and they're just not out.
First of all, if you follow any of the Tumblrs dedicated to pictures of hockey wives and girlfriends, you'll eventually notice most of the women fit a very similar type: white, conventionally attractive, traditionally feminine, long hair, lots of blondes. (I expect you'd find the same pattern in the female partners of any group of rich, white men between the ages of 18 and 30.) But when there are out gay/bi players in relationships with men, or straight/bi female players in relationships with men, are their partners going to fit a specific type? Or is there a wider range of socially accepted attractiveness for men?
Secondly, I'm interested in what the day-to-day lives of male hockey player partners would look like. I ran across this post where someone who claims to have dated a hockey player talks about hockey wives and girlfriends not having jobs outside the home:
Thirdly, what happens to the charitable auxiliary arms of NHL teams when there are male partners involved? The Flyers' large public event/charity fundraiser is the Carnival, also known as the Flyers Wives Carnival, technically the Flyers Wives Fight For Lives Carnival, put on by the Flyers Wives Charities. Several teams have fashion show fundraisers where the players' partners are the models for the fashion shows. What happens when some of those partners are men? Does the Flyers Wives Charities (which is already inaccurately named given how many players have partners they're not technically married to) change its name? Do the male partners model men's fashions on the charity runways? How do male partners feel about being the charitable auxiliary? What's it like for the women to suddenly have a man as part of their group? How does that change the group dynamics?
I find all this interesting as a thought exercise, but I also want to see (more - there are at least a couple of stories that somewhat touch on it) fic that tackles this issue. If Tyler Brown stops playing hockey and becomes Tyler Seguin's househusband, does he arrange every part of his life around being available for Segs when he's home? How does he feel about that? Does it cause friction in their relationship? If a male player has a male partner who's never been part of the hockey world before, how does this system work for them? Does the fact that they're an out gay couple complicate it? If there are female players with male partners, how does this work for them? Do their partners resent this arrangement, or do they find partners who see supporting their partner and her success as more important than asserting their independence as men? These are the kinds of questions I keep thinking about.
First of all, if you follow any of the Tumblrs dedicated to pictures of hockey wives and girlfriends, you'll eventually notice most of the women fit a very similar type: white, conventionally attractive, traditionally feminine, long hair, lots of blondes. (I expect you'd find the same pattern in the female partners of any group of rich, white men between the ages of 18 and 30.) But when there are out gay/bi players in relationships with men, or straight/bi female players in relationships with men, are their partners going to fit a specific type? Or is there a wider range of socially accepted attractiveness for men?
Secondly, I'm interested in what the day-to-day lives of male hockey player partners would look like. I ran across this post where someone who claims to have dated a hockey player talks about hockey wives and girlfriends not having jobs outside the home:
But I honestly don’t know 1 guy who wants their gf to have a career. The guys are gone most of the time and when they are home, they want full undivided attention. If you work a 9 to 5 job, you are only going to see your guy maybe 2 nights a week when he is at home but there isn’t a game. The girl keeps him organized, buys presents for family members bday, goes grocery shopping, sometimes does laundry, sometimes cleans (depends on arrangement) and cooks or provides food for him to eat. When u are both there, your job is to be there for him physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually. The time you have for yourself is when he is away, then u can make phone calls home, hang with the girls etc. if a girl can agree to this, then in most cases he is ok with spending the $. This was one of the hardest things for me. When I was with my ex, my own life stopped. I put off semesters of going to my dream school so I could follow him around and be with him. My personal life was suffering. My friends were living it up in college and I felt like a housewife. Eventually I had to end it (for other reasons as well) because being strong and independent was more important to me than it was him.In some ways, I find this to be a disturbing look into the gender roles of extremely privileged people. (Uh, let's be clear: I'm not condemning women who agree to this life. If I had a partner with a job she loved that paid her an outrageous amount of money, there's no way in hell I would have a day job. What I find disturbing is both the expectation that this is the only option and the part where "your job is to be there for him physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually." What if you need him to be there for you? Or you don't want to have sex when he does?) In other ways, I find it to be a fascinating look into the lives of hockey player relationships. And again, my question is: what happens when those partners are men? Does this pattern still apply? Does it apply if the male partners are partnered to men but not to women? Will the wider cultural expectation that men must be independent outweigh the hockey culture expectation that a player's partner's most important job is to support the player?
Thirdly, what happens to the charitable auxiliary arms of NHL teams when there are male partners involved? The Flyers' large public event/charity fundraiser is the Carnival, also known as the Flyers Wives Carnival, technically the Flyers Wives Fight For Lives Carnival, put on by the Flyers Wives Charities. Several teams have fashion show fundraisers where the players' partners are the models for the fashion shows. What happens when some of those partners are men? Does the Flyers Wives Charities (which is already inaccurately named given how many players have partners they're not technically married to) change its name? Do the male partners model men's fashions on the charity runways? How do male partners feel about being the charitable auxiliary? What's it like for the women to suddenly have a man as part of their group? How does that change the group dynamics?
I find all this interesting as a thought exercise, but I also want to see (more - there are at least a couple of stories that somewhat touch on it) fic that tackles this issue. If Tyler Brown stops playing hockey and becomes Tyler Seguin's househusband, does he arrange every part of his life around being available for Segs when he's home? How does he feel about that? Does it cause friction in their relationship? If a male player has a male partner who's never been part of the hockey world before, how does this system work for them? Does the fact that they're an out gay couple complicate it? If there are female players with male partners, how does this work for them? Do their partners resent this arrangement, or do they find partners who see supporting their partner and her success as more important than asserting their independence as men? These are the kinds of questions I keep thinking about.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 03:00 am (UTC)That said, most of the girlfriends/wives I hear about are mostly not career women even if they have day jobs as pilates instructors or whatever, so I'm sure that poster has a point.
If a male partner came into the picture, I'm sure it would depend on the group of wives/girlfriends. I can imagine a few scenarios - a sincere and conscious effort to welcome them, a fake effort to welcome them with a lot of talk behind his back or that kind of social manipulation that goes on when a group tries to oust someone without being explicitly allowed to do so, and I can also see a male partner trying to stay out of the team events as much as possible either for his own sake or because the teammember doesn't want it to be more public than it has to be.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 03:07 am (UTC)I'm so interested in this what happens to the group dynamic thing. Part of what interests me is even if they sincerely welcome a male partner, how do they (emotionally/mentally more than practically) deal with it no longer being a female space? I'm with you on also wondering about male partners staying out of it by choice. That same Tumblr poster answered another question where she said that while it's not mandatory, it is expected that you as a partner will be involved in the charity efforts. I wonder how much harder that would make it for a male partner to stay out of it.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 03:30 am (UTC)Um, I have a lot of thoughts on this topic. Please allow me to try and articulate them!
Guys entering traditionally female spaces is really awkward, sometimes. I have spent 8 years working in a female dominated space, and when we hire guys, it can get sticky really fast. Now, we're brought together by a job, and not a significant other, but the fact of the mater is, a lot of girls feel threatened by it. There's a lot of boundry pushing, where girls intentionally discuss things that they don't usually talk about in front of men because they can, just to get a reaction. If it's no reaction, they either try harder or stop, and if there is a reaction, it's usually the girl freaking out at the guy about accepting women, etc, etc. (There's some other fun stories in there, like one of the guys announcing he hated feminists and never coming back to work after we all explained to him how horrible this choice of words was).
I can't imagine that there wont be, at least outwardly, acceptance and at least until a precedence is set, women going above and beyond to include the men. I think that the male partners of male players will find a lot more acceptance, but only so long as they fit the role of being the "weaker" partner to a "stronger" man. I am sure that this is changing somewhat, because society is changing, but society wives (which hockey wives are) usually need to look submissive to the needs of their partner to the outside world. Regardless of how their relationship works behind closed doors, there is a "stand by your man" mentality about them. As long as the men fit this role, they'll be included and things wont change too much. I'm sure wording on things will change, to be more gender neutral, but the roles played wont.
Once that stereotype is broken, that's where problems will rise up. The first time a guy ends up with someone who is bigger than him physically with a respectable job and who doesn't play the part as househusband well? Then you'll probably see lines drawn.
I am sure we don't see it, but those same lines are probably drawn with the aforementioned women, who are strong with their own lives, etc. A woman who can bring something to the table is a threat to the status quo for the society wives, and we can have that.
That said, things are already changing, so if, for instance, Jeff Carter has a partner who is a doctor, and someone else on the team has a wife who does her own thing, and then someone has a boyfriend who has a life that isn't hockey? I think it will be easier than if the boyfriend came to a team whose partner identity was still 100% society wife.
I think it will also be different depending on the age of the couple. If it's a young player with a boyfriend, the established status quo will not be threatened near as much as it would be is it was an older player with an older partner.
So many thoughts I can't even remember to type up!
FTR, though, I totally want this Tylers fic, pls and thank you. I know you already sort of wrote it, but I WANT MORE!
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 04:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 05:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 06:12 am (UTC)I believe Brandon Prust's girlfriend, Maripier Morin, was also pretty well known before she started dating Prust - more so than him in Montreal before he got traded AFAIK. She's a TV host I believe?
On another note, I remember in the Beyond the Puck or whatever that NatGeo Ference special was called, Krista Ference (who was a pro snowboarder) talks about how when she moved to the states to be with Ference, she couldn't work even if she wanted to because she didn't have a work visa. So that's another side of it when you think about how many Canadian/European/Russian players date girls from their home countries.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 02:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 03:00 pm (UTC)Maria Sharapova used to date a Lakers player and is now dating a tennis player who isn't as rich or famous as her. They were being called Mr. Sharapova. Venus Williams is dating a younger man who's always there during most of her games (I think he's an underwear model) while her sister Serena is dating her coach, who is or was a married man with kids. If you made the names/pronouns male, it'd be very typical but since they're female, it becomes very interesting.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:29 pm (UTC)Huh. Interesting. I'm also curious how it is for the women themselves. There's the part about it potentially being awkward and having to think about how to include a man, and then there's the part where female space, especially in a social situation, can be a really important and valuable thing for women. I can imagine that even if they genuinely want to include male partners, they might still miss that aspect of it how things were.
Oh, such a good point about changing standards and how things will be different depending on what sort of men the relationships are with. And the age thing - younger people will be more likely to adopt new relationship patterns, and accept them in other people.
And, yes, society wives! That's exactly what it is. I wonder if there are communities out there where men or women have society husbands that would give us an idea of what that might look like in the hockey community. (Society wives are not something I really know anything about.) Also, you using that term made me realize that of course I'm interested in this right now; all three of my current long projects are at least somewhat about this. (Briouxs fic where Claude still plays hockey and Danny's retired and going to college, TSegs fic where he dates an original character who has nothing to do with hockey and is in grad school, and a marriage of convenience original novel where the deal is that one character gets the financial support for her art in return for being a society wife to the other.)
Ha! I would also read a longer, more expansive version of that Tylers fic! But I make no writing promises.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:35 pm (UTC)That Beyond the Puck episode is fascinating. (Here, for anyone reading along who hasn't seen it - it's only four minutes long.) In addition to that point, I also liked that she was completely upfront about saying she missed snowboarding, and that raising her daughters was also important. (Plus the part where Andrew says she's great for teaching them to be "courageous and daring." This is possibly the part where my crush on their parenting skills got out of control.)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 08:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 10:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 10:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 10:20 pm (UTC)I REALLY WANT THESE FICS NOW. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-07 11:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-08 12:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-08 12:29 am (UTC)Anyway, another player Vika Azarenka has Redfoo of LMFAO as a boyfriend (I don't know if they still are, since a few months ago redfoo cried over an audition in X-Factor or The Voice Canada or something where the song was about loss or some such), and he spent most of the latter quarter of 2012 to the 1st quarter of 2013 present for her tournaments.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-08 04:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-08 07:30 pm (UTC)42494836 13
Date: 2013-10-08 09:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-10 03:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-10 03:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-10 05:57 pm (UTC)♥
Re: 42494836 13
Date: 2013-10-10 05:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-10 05:58 pm (UTC)Redfoo! I hope that was super entertaining.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-10 05:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-11 02:11 am (UTC)IDK, these are my (slightly outdated) conclusions to my exposure. As far as charity work, idk. I maybe stayed as far away from that as I could.
eta: not that there is anything wrong with charity work, I just tried to stay out of that aspect of this persons life, as it wasn't something I was comfortable with. I know it does good, and I know there are people who mean it, but I have found so much of society charity work isn't because of the need, but because of how it makes people look to outsiders (for a good look at this, read up on the recent "pink washing" controversy with the NFL).
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-11 05:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-13 07:40 pm (UTC)I wonder if there are communities out there where men or women have society husbands
I have nothing constructive to add (!) except that one paradigm could be the way the military handles gay partners or the male partners of women in the forces, especially where those women are in the extreme minority. Military partners are often involved in related charity work, although they're not exactly society husbands/wives *g* I don't have any particular links, unfortunately.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-14 04:43 pm (UTC)Huh, I hadn't thought to look at the military as an analog. I think it's a little different (particularly the financial situation), but if I come across anything about male military spouses, I'll keep an eye on it for the parallels.