Asking: On the Topic of Fannish Discussions

[rsadelle]

I have to admit that I haven't paid a lot of attention to varying fails and other large fannish discussions. I do hear about them sometimes, mostly from norwich36 and hederahelix. In some post or comment about one of the recent ones, someone (I know, I know; I should cite my sources, but it was not where I thought it was and now I can't remember where it really did come from) said something about how big bang really does seem to bring out the fail. I think there are a couple of things going on around that idea, but one of the biggest things is that fandom seems to have changed. If you'll allow me to put on my old fangirl hat, I remember the days when saying anything less than positive about a story was Not Done. And yet now we have very large conversations about things that are problematic in a specific story. (Granted, conversations range from there, but that's where they start.)

So, fandom, I have two questions for you:

Question 1: Am I right that fandom has changed and you are now allowed to talk about problematic things without being yelled at/shunned/called evil?

Question 1A: If so, can I just do it here in my own LJ as a thing I'm thinking about or do I have to post it as a comment to the author?

Question 2: Does this only apply to politically problematic things, or can I talk about writing using examples from other people's stories? (At the moment I am thinking particularly about how endings seem to be harder than I ever imagined, and I think it would be more interesting to make a post with specific examples than just reproduce the handout I created for my writing group on the topic.)

Comments

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

I think it is now acceptable to point out politically problematic things, but people still get upset if you post other types of criticism (e.g. your plot had serious problems, your characterization was very OOC, etc.) Actually, people get upset when you point out politically problematic things too--it's just that there's a new consensus that trying to silence that form of criticism is wrong.

Still, if you are going to post about problematic elements in stories, I think it's better to do it in your own LJ than as a comment to the author.

I think you might experience the wrath of fandom if you posted on endings using specific examples, but maybe not. My own bigbang reviews this year have contained a number of critical comments and haven't created a wankstorm--at least not yet. (Though that racefail story seemed to have killed my snark. I find myself thinking "ok, all the characters were completely OOC and the plot sucked monkey balls, but at least it didn't exploit a RL tragedy for porn.")

[rsadelle]

I don't want to comment to the author, so I like it that your advice is to just post it here.

One of my thoughts about using examples is that not enough people in the larger world of bandom pay attention to me for anyone to notice/get upset with me.

[megyal]

I think you always run the risk of getting yelled/shunned at/called evil by at least one person, probably the writer, no matter what the problematic thing is. I guess it's up to you to know when to make a comment, because a comment may feed a wank, turning it into a verbal twister on the level of F5. You'll come back to your email with a look of confusion on your face.

What do you mean by endings seem to be harder than I ever imagine? Maybe it would be odd to use current examples. But it all depends on how you present it, I guess?

[rsadelle]

I suppose that's true. I'm kind of thinking that few enough people from bandom as a whole pay attention to me that if I say something it won't be a huge thing where I get yelled at.

I have never thought endings were all that hard to write, but in the last couple of weeks, I've read a lot of stories with endings that don't work for one reason or another. Many of them are abrupt, which I'm starting to think might be an effect of big bang - people rush to finish the story before the deadline.

[icanbreakthesky.livejournal.com]

Even if you didn't mean anything by it, you could hurt someone's feelings if they found out about it--it doesn't really matter how few people pay attention to you, if there's one person who will take it the wrong way scrolling through your flist. Just because people don't have you friended doesn't mean they aren't reading you, apparently (a post I made in my journal after Bob left MCR got linked to wank_report, and god knows I didn't think anyone was paying attention to me). If you did specific examples it could still get around very fast. I guess it depends on how you do it.

I think with something political the outrage should be expressed, but bad writing isn't ethically wrong. I mean, different people get different things out of writing. If they don't want to improve, then calling them out publicly over it might not go over so well. On the other hand, something more general might be more of a tool and less of a source of hurt for people who do want to improve.

I don't, my two cents. I guess it depends on how you do it and who ends up seeing it.

[rsadelle]

I think you're right - I honestly was thinking more of my own annoyance with writing that doesn't work and not about the people behind the fic, which is not really in accordance with how I want to live my life. Thank you for the reminder.