rsadelle | Commentary: Novel-Length SPN RPS (as read by someone who knows nothing about the fandom)

When I asked for novel-length fic recs, I got two things:

dine recommended "Lust Over Pendle" (I tried, really, and I made it farther than I ever have before, but I just couldn't get into it.) and

norwich36 pointed me at her recs from the Big Bang, which, as best as I can determine without doing any actual research (like, say, clicking a link to it), is a novel-length SPN and SPN RPF fest/challenge. I find myself weirdly reluctant to read the FPF. I keep thinking that I have such a no-spoilers policy (I wouldn't even read the inside flap of the last three HP books), and what if I want to watch SPN someday? I will have been spoiled! (Yes, this is silly, and I will probably go back and read all of those next.) Instead, I've worked my way through the RPF. Below is what I thought about the things I did read. I will forewarn you that these are (a) spoilery and (b) somewhat on the snarky side (because I have a bad attitude, and I'm hypercritical when it's not my fandom).

General Observations
First: I continue to stand behind my claim that fan fic doesn't teach you to write description. Despite reading 14 Jared/Jensen stories and even with occasionally going to IMDb to remind myself what they look like, I don't have a good picture of them in my head. The only characters I can really see are Chris and Chad (who I knew something about before) and Sandy (because I discovered partway through this that the real Sandy looks nothing like I imagined from the first story I read).

Second: I didn't find the sex in most of these very hot. There's only one that has some really hot sex, and it's also more than a little twisted. (Er. I'm not sure if that says more about the fic or about me.) I'm not sure if it's because I can't get a handle on what they look like (see the above paragraph) or if it's because I don't have a strong emotional attachment to the fandom (except that I fell for the romance in many of them) or if it's because

norwich36 and I have different tastes.

Question: Characteristic of the fandom or selection bias?
As I write this paragraph, I've read four of these stories. They are all third person limited to Jared. Is this the way most of the fandom is, or is it a selection bias issue in that this is what

norwich36 likes to read?

After writing the aforementioned paragraph, I started keeping a tally:

POV tally:
Third Jared: 6
Alternating Third Jared/Third Jensen: 2
Alternating Third Jared/Third Jensen/Epistles: 1
Third Jensen: 3
Third Omniscient: 1
Alternating Third Jared/Third Jensen/Occasional Third Other: 1

In Production by

reccea
I liked the feel of this story, and I loved Jared wandering all over Paris (it was, in fact, what prodded me to tell you my best travel story). There are also bits that are hilarious, and she does a good job of highlighting physical touch from the very beginning. And then there were things I didn't like about it. I've already talked about the lack of description in fan fic, so I won't bore you with that again. The other fandom specific thing that bothered me is the height thing. Every time I say this to someone in the fandom, they say, "Oh, you mean how everyone takes a three-inch height difference and turns it into itty-bitty Jensen and gigantor Jared?" Which, actually is not what I mean. That's annoying enough, sure, but that's par for the course for slashers; you see it in all kinds of fandoms. (See, for example, Klaus and Dorian's 3cm height/9kg weight difference turns into Dorian being so much smaller than Klaus.) What I mean is the way she can't. stop. talking. about how tall Jared is. Okay, okay, I'm exaggerating for effect, but still. Having trouble with the tininess of medieval stairs, yes. Going on about being tall, no. When I tell people about this, I keep explaining that my brother is 6'4" and my dad, at 6'0", is the short one amongst his brothers, so I don't find really tall people all that odd. Weirdly enough, two of the fangirls with whom I've had a variation on this conversation have had similar experiences with tall people in their lives. Are we the statistical outliers, or are tall people just not that remarkable?

Now that I've digressed, the structural things that didn't work for me. First of all, the story takes place ten years later. Shouldn't things be more different? I would expect more OCs, different jokes and references (I'm still friends with people I was friends with ten years ago, and we and the world have changed so much that we have all different in-jokes and cultural and personal reference points), and different slang (this complaint brought to you by the word "douche," which is quite possibly my least favorite word ever. EVER. I hope/pray/wish it will have faded in popularity in ten years). Secondly, I felt betrayed by the author when we found out only at the end of the story that Jensen is bi and everyone in the story knows it. (If that's how he self-identifies in real life and I just don't know, then you can roll your eyes about fangirls reading in fandoms they know nothing about and then complaining about the things that are real. I tend to think this is not the case because surely I would have heard about it even though I'm not in the fandom. I had heard, before, that one of them was freakishly tall.) I think I might have read the story differently if I'd known from the beginning.

Relax, It's Just Sex by

enoughoflove
I liked the romance aspect of "Relax, It's Just Sex," and Sophia being quite naughty (yes, please), but I didn't think the sex scenes were very hot, plus I kept feeling anxious about Sandy and working really damn hard to suspend my disbelief when there's no STD testing required by the porn company. Also, I finally Googled Sandy (when they show up in two different stories, then it's pretty safe to assume they're real and not made up), and she looks nothing like what I imagined from "In Production." And then when Jensen was talking about Christian, I actually said out loud, "I thought he was Steve's friend," but then IMDb says he's Christian's friend. (Also, LeAnn Rimes' friend, which I find inexplicably hilarious.) There's also a reveal that wouldn't be a reveal for anyone who knows Jensen's middle name. (This does not include me, at least not until sometime after reading the story. Even without knowing, you know that's where the story is going; it just takes you longer to clue into just which character is Jensen.) I really need an illustrated dramatis personae for CWRPS. (I keep thinking of the CW as similar to the old Hollywood studio system to deal with the presumed improbability [even if it's actually true in real life] of everyone on every show knowing each other quite so well.) Also, maybe, a short (less than a sentence) description of each character's personality. I was thrown by Chad in this because he was such an asshole in "In Production" and so much nicer here.

Do I seem bulletproof to you? by

fleshflutter
This is a hooker AU and a bodyguard AU all in one story. Have I ever told you how much I absolutely adore the one person has to protect the other and then they fall in love plot? Because I do. A lot. (This is why I'm mad at George Lucas; he took a fabulous plot and did it badly.) I don't really have anything snarky to say about this story because I just loved it. Probably the worst thing about it is that I made the bad decision to start reading it in the morning before work and my concentration was consequently shot for the day. I didn't even want to do my yoga in the evening because all I wanted to do was eat cashews and finish the story. (Er. The cashews were a personal idiosyncrasy, not one to do with the story. Presumably I needed some protein and salt in my diet.) I found this hilarious: "'Moulin Rouge is off my approved viewing list,' Jared breaks in. 'Same as Pretty Woman.'" Three things worth noting:

She uses "douche" to describe Chad, but I found it less annoying. I hope this is only because it fit well with the story and not because I'm becoming accustomed to it.
She does an excellent job of acknowledging and working with Jared's height without being annoying. Part of why he gets the bodyguard job is that he's tall. Later, "It doesn't sound like the best plan Jared's ever heard but after forty goddamn minutes of various suits from the network finding various lame ways to jokily comment on just how tall Jared is, he's all too ready to go for it."
Chris is in it, and Jensen says about him, "Ah, it's just how he is. He'll be here for a week or so then he'll take off and I won't see him again for months. Might get a postcard from Cairo or Riga or somewhere. Or hear one of his songs on the radio." Now I really, really, really want the companion story about Chris. Also some Chris/Jensen.

Old Hideaway by

ivy03
This particular AU takes place at an all-boys summer camp, which, of course, has an all-girls summer camp only a mile away. But that's not really important because what's really important is that Jared and Jensen are both counselors at the all-boys camp. There's nary a mention of Sandy in the whole story, which, frankly, was a little bit of a relief. I've grown to like her (or, er, her as portrayed by SPN RPS AU writers, anyway), and I've been spending a lot of time worrying about her and wondering why SPN RPSers are so wed to canon that they can't just leave her out of it completely every once in a while. Or put her more in the friend role like in "Do I seem bulletproof to you?" But I digress (as usual). What I liked about this story was not just that Jared was a goofball, but that he was conscious of and not bothered by the fact. I also loved the sex on a sailboat, and Jensen throwing Jared overboard afterwards (I promise this is fun and not mean). The first comment about the story (I generally don't read them, but this one caught my eye because it was the first one and it was at the bottom of my screen when I got to the end of the story) says that it reminds her of a Gordon Korman book. Considering that pretty much the sum total of my knowledge of all-boys summer camps comes from Gordon Korman's I Want to Go Home!, I have to agree with her.

norwich36 said she liked the campers, especially Lizard. I thought Lizard was a little obnoxious, but I loved Gecko ("Jared thought it was hilarious, and each of the kids seemed to think it was cool, except for Gecko, who complained that his name was a subphyla of lizard, so really gecko and lizard were redundant."), and I hope she was setting him up to come out to Jared in another couple of summers. I also liked Chris (Chris! I think I'm still a good little Kane fangirl at heart.) mentoring Jared and the implied but unexplored past that makes Jensen so hesitant to get involved with Jared. I also liked that she doesn't once use any variation on "douche" to talk about Chad or anyone else. This is also the story where I realized that Jeff is Jeffrey Dean Morgan, which is not at all who I was picturing in "Do I seem bulletproof to you?"

While I enjoyed the story for the most part, I found myself not quite emotionally fulfilled at the end. I think it's because Jared says to Jensen "Like the camp has some magic fairy dust that made me fall in love with you," but there just isn't quite enough going on in the story for me to buy it. I wanted more of them spending time together and getting to know each other. After all, my favorite category at The Spander Files isn't first time but rather developing feelings.

Open Mike Night at the Fremont by

audrarose
At this point, I have to admit that I'm losing ground on the snarkiness beat. I loved this story. Jared, the newly famous sculptor, and Jensen, not quite healing for a horrible car accident. I liked their instant attraction - Allison later says, "I know you're freaking, but -- this is just the way it goes, Jay. One minute you're just sitting there minding your own business and then the next the love of your life walks into a coffee shop. Sometimes it really does happen like that. You've got to go with it. Don't... freak." I liked the way she has Jared prompt a change in Jensen without being the fix for it: "And you need to give me some time," Jensen says, and Jared gives in to it. I liked the way she deals with the specter of suicide without actually saying anything about it outright. I also love the way she talks about Jared as an artist: "The wood was smooth beneath his bare feet, the apartment completely unlit but he could see perfectly in the dimness because Jeff's decorating ran exclusively to warm wood with everything else in shades of white. Jared had found it restful for about the first ten minutes before he'd started itching to draw on the walls." "It was a little overwhelming to think that Jared had made this amazing, powerful thing, with his gifted hands and his beautiful heart, and even if Jensen never saw Jared again, he would be grateful to have seen this." "The second Jensen's fingers touched the sculpture Jared caught his breath. Somehow having Jensen's hands on his work was like having Jensen's hands on his skin and Jared's body reacted the same way." I even enjoyed the poetry.

Late Night Double Feature by

vorpalblades
The snark from before? Yeah, it's all gone now. I liked this too. In addition to a fun plot and a nice romance, this one is also funny. First, there's Kripke, the manager, who calls everyone by their last names, and never once calls Jared the same thing. Then there's Jared's mother, whose successive attempts to get Jared out of bed in the mornings are hilarious. For example, "Your alarm clock is not the traitorous minion of Satan you’re making it out to be, and you will not put another hole in your wall. Now get out of bed, mister!" In this one, Jared slowly stops being friends with Chad even as he falls for Jensen. Plus, Chris. All of this J2 reading has made me switch from Guys and Dolls to Kane's Acoustic Live in London! for my repeat listening. I love that when it's Chris's turn, the CD he puts in is a self-recorded one of him and Steve.

Dear Chris,

There's a reason fangirls romanticize your earlier days. Please go back to a less-commercial, more rough-edged sound.

Much love, Ruth

Spin the Light to Gold by

belyste
And the snark is back. This is another summer camp counselor AU, and it's not that it's a bad story - it does have some nice touches (Jared and Jensen competing, Jared's comparison of the reality of camp to what he imagined, Jensen's ceramic cats). But it has some flaws which the nice bits don't quite make up for. First of all, Jared is embarrassingly stupid in the fight near the end, and I just can't watch characters be that dumb in embarrassing ways (I blame my mother for this). Secondly, it goes on forever with nothing going on. I wanted more of them getting to know each other. At least they didn't love each other at first sight and then never get to know each other - they had to fight it out until they admitted they liked each other.

Walls by

dhvana
Dammit, this is another story I liked. This is also the first one that's entirely third person limited to Jensen. (See the general commentary and tally at the top for more on the pov issue.) This time, Jensen's an asshole corporate type and Jared's a famous painter. Chris is Jared's friend, and Jensen's ex, and when Chris comes to take Jensen to task for breaking Jared's heart, he says, "Jensen, I got my music back, but I came out the other side a different person, one not quite as trusting, one who hates a little easier than they love. I don’t want that happening to Jared."

Any Road Will Get You There by

doodle_writes
This is another one that I just loved. Jared and Jensen have all the same friends, and yet they've never met. Chris, Jensen's best friend-turned ex-turned best friend, thinks they'll be perfect for each other and keeps trying to get them together. They finally start a relationship based entirely on text messages, IMs, emails, and phone conversations. And then they get married. With the best proposal ever:

"We should get married."

"Excuse me?" Jensen responded automatically, a gut reaction as his brain tried to process not only the question but if Jared was actually being serious about it.

"We should get married," Jared repeated before adding, "in Canada, obviously." What confused Jensen the most was that Jared made it sound like it was just a regular conversation they were having and Jensen should know exactly what he was going on about and what prompted it.

The structure of the story is really interesting too. A lot of the stories in the series have associated fan art, which I'm trying not to look at (fan art doesn't do much for me, and bad ones can ruin the whole thing), but this one actually has Lolcats and a few other drawings and photos as part of the story, as well as narrative sections and sections that are wholly text message conversations, IM conversations, and emails.

My one complaint is the britishisms - "I've not," "Yeah?" and so forth, as well as a whole discussion about who's the ginger that makes much more sense if you're British.

Rules of Engagement by

siubhlach
Holy shit. This is another hooker AU, completely fucked up, and has the hottest sex of any of these I've read so far. I was resisting Chris as the villain, but it turns out he plays a good villain, even if he is outclassed in villainy, and pretty much everything else, by Jared.

Yes Sir (I Don't Mean Maybe) by

hkath
I love this story so much I want to marry it and have its babies. Which, uh, is pretty much what the story is about. Jared and Jensen get married (I love the weddings in these stories, especially since it's way less gimmicky than that damn Harry/Draco I hated once I learned it was a gimmicky story), and then decide to have kids:

"Do you want to have kids?" Jensen said, and this time he turned, looked Jared in the eye. Jared, whose facial expression didn't quite match his joking words. "Because I... I think I do."

"Um," Jared said, and pressed his lips together. It made him look a little like a frog.

"Like, soon," Jensen stammered. "You know. Preferably."

Jared's mouth twitched a little, then a little more, and then he was barely able to talk, he was grinning so wide.

"You're a fucking moron," he said, but he said it with such fondness, it didn't matter that he'd just called Jensen an idiot. "Of course I want to have kids with you. Dude, I say it all the time."

Jensen has a past drunk and disorderly arrest on his record, so their lawyer suggests they take an eight-week parenting class to make them look good to adoption agencies. Little do they know that this parenting class requires them to take care of a robotic baby. And then Mark from TMZ, who's more than a little in love with Jensen, films them out shopping for the robotic baby. This has consequences:

Over the rest of the evening, they fielded calls from Chris ("The hell are you thinking, going out in public like that?"), Steve ("Jared lost all that pregnancy weight yet?"), Jared's sister (unintelligible laughter) and Jensen's mom ("Oh, honey, this is the most wonderful thing I've ever heard!"). It was kind of fascinating, watching how news of the article or video, whatever it was, spread from person to person. Like viral advertising with personal phone updates built in.

And then there's Vin Diesel. Seriously! This story has random Vin Diesel to go with all of the rest of its hilarity. I approve.

Bright Lights (The Kind You Like to Flaunt) by

raphaela667
I liked the beginning of this story, and much of the end, but I spent a lot of the middle feeling like I was missing something. Making your readers feel dumb is maybe not the best strategy. Also, I said I was enjoying the weddings, but, seriously, this fandom, or possibly just

norwich36, has a serious marriage kink.

Nosce te ipsum by

rei_c
This story is just incredible. She's created a fascinating world that hit all of my classical history-influenced worlds buttons. I think the story is all about Jensen healing, and I like that Jared is such an instrument of that healing just by living. Even if you're not into this fandom, you should go read this story!

Veterans of the Psychic Wars by

kalireynn and

kellwyntar
This is a fantastic sci fi AU. Jared's an unpaired Psion, Jensen's and unpaired Guardian, and when they find each other, they can save the world. I loved how they get to know each other, with Jared just talking away until they connect. I loved the well-built world that I could see. I loved it that what makes it work in the end is that Jensen dives into Jared's mind and holds on with everything he has. This is another one you should read even if you're not into the fandom.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

norwich36.livejournal.com

Hmm. I'm pretty sure the Jared POV thing is an artifact of BigBang and not a personal preference--though it may be my preference for "discovering your sexuality" stories coming out through that, because a lot of those camp stories you were ambivalent about I liked for that reason. And it sounds like, mostly, we have different taste in sex. As far as I know, I don't have a marriage kink--unless it's arranged marriage--but "Bright Lights" was kind of on the margin for me, anyway--I almost didn't recommend it because the conflict seemed a little contrived to me.

"Chad as a douche" is a common trope in the fandom--and yes, they liked to use that word, I'm not really sure why. Characterization of Sandy is all over the place--she has her own fans, who tend to write her as Jared's BFF, though of course she also gets vilified for being in the way of Jared and Jensen's twoo wuv forever. Chris is mainly not vilifed in the fandom, unless he's being Jensen's ex (and I personally found abusive heroin-dealing Chris from "Rules of Engagement" the only thing that threw me out of the story. Even though it's fictional, it really bothered me, even though Jared being an abusive control-freak did not. Weird, huh?)

Reading through this, I was interested that some of the plot pointsI found objectionable in some of these (like, say, marrying someone you've never met in person!!) in "Any Road will get you there" were some of your favorite aspects of the story, and vice versa (I loved the long, slow build of "Spin the Light to Gold," for example). So perhaps our tastes are too different for me to rec stuff to you. Nevertheless, I did want to mention my favorite college J2 AU, Things I Learned My Freshman Year in College (http://community.livejournal.com/loveisntbrains/), which has my favorite fictional Sandy and my favorite fictional Chris. It also has a huge supporting cast from the CW: Allison Mack and Alexis Bledel from Gilmore Girls and Amanda Seyfried from Veronica Mars and Justin Hartley, Tom Welling and Michael Rosenbaum from Smallville, among others.

The first (very long) story is all from Jared's POV, but she just posted the same story retold for Jensen's POV. There's also a sequel set in sophomore year, but it's still a WIP. Year one stands on its own, though.

From:

rsadelle

It just seems weird that so many of them are Jared's pov. I don't like the "discovering your sexuality" stories that much, at least, not when that's the focus of the story. I'd rather they just skip to falling in love. It just seems weird to me to see three out of fourteen stories where they get married. I'm not used to that plot point! (Perhaps this is only because I haven't been reading much reality-based fan fic in the past few years. It could be that this is something that's commonplace these days and I just missed it.)

Yeah, I got the sense of standard Chad and differing Sandy characterizations. I got the sense that Chris as Jensen's ex seems to be a pretty common thing. Any Chris/Jensen that you know of? I was iffy at first about Chris in "Rules of Engagement," but when he actually showed up, then I bought it.

Well, of course it's kind of silly to marry someone you've never met, but it's also nicely romantic. And that story's so full of silliness anyway, that that's not really out of place. I actually would be interested in reading through someone else's set of recs from the Big Bang to see how I feel about them as compared to yours - and to get a different sense of the fandom. Do you know of anyone else who posted a list of recs from it?

I'll have to check that story out and come back to tell you what I thought!

From:

norwich36.livejournal.com

I actually read every single one of the SPN/J2 BigBang stories (or at any rate, started every one), so I didn't pay much attention to people's rec lists, unfortunately.

spnroundtable is generally a good source for recs, but browsing through the comm, I only saw one rec sets for the latest round of bigbang stories that actually covered J2 (most of them focus on the SPN stories): http://community.livejournal.com/spnroundtable/83980.html. I see that this person recs "Come Play With Me," which I think I inadvertantly left out of the recs I pointed you to, but which is a whole lot of fun because in the prologue, Jensen is a B-movie horror star, specializing in such masterpieces as "Twink Hunt," and Jared and Chad are his biggest fanboys, though they go on to become famous independent film directors. I have a terrible weakness for RPS where the guys are fanboys, I have to say, but this one has a clever structure, I thought.

I do know of a few Jensen/Chris stories, though they're not novel-length. Yield Strength (http://t-fic.livejournal.com/22081.html) is, if I am remembering correctly, Chris and Jensen in a d/s relationship; I don't precisely remember the plot, but it's a prequel to a J2 story that I think stands alone ok.

estrella30 had at least one Jensen/Chris story here, though I can't really remember much about it, since it's not really my pairing, but she's generally a good writer: http://estrella30.livejournal.com/284105.html. I'm thinking there's one longer Chris/Jensen epic somewhere, but I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. I'll let you know if I remember it. Generally the RPS in this fandom is J2 or Jensen/Jeffrey Dean Morgan, and if Chris is slashed with anyone he's slashed with Steve.

It's funny, in other fandoms I'm not really into coming out stories at all, but for some reason they're my favorite stories in J2. Maybe I just love the high school/college AUs because I'm having my midlife crisis early, or something.

From:

rsadelle

Thanks for the additional recs! I'll have to go read them.

What about Jared/Jensen/Chris? Any of that around?

From:

"Come Play With Me" is so cute!

From:

rsadelle

That was me saying "Come Play With Me" was cute. I got logged out. And then replied to a different comment to say this. *facepalm*

From:

norwich36.livejournal.com

I did wonder who that anonymous person was. Yeah, I think really the first part of "Come Play with Me" was the best part, but I really do love Jared and Chad as fanboys. (Now watch--I'm probably associating the wrong story with that title).

(no subject)

From:

rsadelle - Date: 2008-09-01 04:45 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

rsadelle

Oh my God, "The Seahorse." I love it!

From:

rsadelle

"After the Tone": Pretty good.

"It's a Thin Line Between Love and Hate": There was a point where I thought, "You don't have to keep reading this," and yet I did. Not very good, but not quite bad enough for me to just stop.

Apparently, I like my fic more AU than not.

From:

norwich36.livejournal.com

I had to go see what "It's a Thin Line Between Love and Hate" was, since I didn't remember it, and oh. Yeah, I think I had the same response. I didn't really like it, but I wanted to see how it ended (which is a response I had to a lot of the Big Bang stories, really).

Disagreeing with fandom since 1999.

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